tv MSNBC Live With Jose Diaz- Balart MSNBC December 4, 2015 6:00am-8:01am PST
the shock gives way to grief. as for the investigation, the fbi has now taken the lead. the official motive is still a mystery but there are indications the male gunman may have been radicalizeds possibly while traveling overseas. to those who knew him, even his own brother-in-law, they say there were no signs. >> he was a good, religious person. just look normal, anybody would be. but nothing i can see that would do that. >> nothing that would fit the term radicalize as i've heard? >> no, no that i've heard, hooves not radical. >> but one was clear, farook and
his wife, tashfeen malik, were armed to the teeth. >> as we entered into the conference room -- unfortunately already dead. >> it could have been a lot worse. when the police caught up with the couple, they were armed with 1,600 bullets, a dozen pipe comes to stashed in their homes, signs they may have been preparing for another attack. we have all developments covered from both coasts. kerry, how are they processing the scenes and what does it mean the feds have taken over now?
>> it means the federal government has resources. this is an investigation that is beyond simply taking the item out of the apartment over my shoulder. the items include computers were some hard drives that were smashed. the bombs that were found here, there was bomb making material and ammunition. there are reports about the guns being purchased legally. the los angeles times now traces that purchase of the weapons to a store about 25 miles from here in corona called annie get your guns. this the slow part of the investigation now, while the team in quantico will take the
cell phones and try to determine whether they were in touch, whether they were radicalized, whether they were following command and control or whether they were acting on their own, they will probably very easily get subpoenas to look at their internet ips address traffic, as well as their cell phone contacts. potentially the fbi will discover that there was something on farook's work computer, on his work telephone. there is just the shoe leather work that takes place in investigations like this that takes a long time where they have to talk to neighbors, have to talk to friends, have to talk to co-workers, talk to members of the congregation at the mosque that he attended, one that he had been going to rather religiously for two years, almost three times a week and then just three weeks ago stopped showing up. why did he stop showing up? was there something that met set
in motion three weeks ago which has since taken place here? a lot of those pieces of the puzzle will start to come together. again it's a very slow process, jose. >> i want to bring in nbc's justice correspondent. pete williams, what else are we learning about the couple behind this attack? >> those are pretty important things, jose. as they try to figure out what the motive was, they have hit a bump in the road. the phones and computers left behind appear to be intentionally damaged. inside this house investigators say they found lelectronic footprints with people overseas and in the u.s. with people
interested in radical islam. u.s. officials are also looking at farook's overseas travel, twice to saudi arabia where he met his wife and to pakistan, where she comes from. but from the president on do you, officials insist they have yet to know what led to the shooting. >> it is possible that this was terrorist related but we don't know. it's also possible that this was workplace related. >> investigators say the couple clearly prepared well in advance, stockpiling a dozen pipe bombs in that redlands house and 4,500 rounds of ammunition in addition to the 1,600 rounds police say the couple had in their suv getaway car. that's roughly $1,500 of ammunition, their guns cost another 1,500 or so. nor important discovery, an explosive device left behind it
scene, three pipe bombs tied together with the remote control detonator, made from the remote control car. >> at this point we do not have information, i do want to stress, we do not have information about what influenced either of these two individuals. >> investigators are also looking at whether farook and his wife had help getting all those guns and explosives. but so far they say there's no sign anybody else knew what the couple was up to. >> i'm just thinking out lou here. it this killing 14 people was not their only intended target because this is something they'd been planning for a while. the fact that they went and broke their electronic gear
before this happened, it seems as though if he was here and left for 10 to 30 minutes and came back, there was some planning before what happened on wednesday. >> to separate points, i think. one is definitely planning ahead of time but, secondly,or right, there certain appear to be other thanksgiving they were intending to do. a dozen more bombs, all that ammunition. certainly they weren't intending to use that all in one ed sewed. did they have other attacks in mind? were they preparing for a siege? were they going to go on from that low kaeg and go o. >> pete williams, thank you very much. appreciate why are time.
-- your time. >> what was your thought when you realized he was behind this? >> shocked. s did belief. >> what was he like? >> he was reserved. he wasn't a person that like a social person. he wasn't someone if you saw he would come up and grab you but, hey, how are you? but we made friendship, acquaintance at the mosque. he used to come by during work and pray in this mosque. >> when was the last time he was here? >> it's been a while, a few weeks. >> so it had been a while. anything about his demeanor that was odd or out of place or angry? >> absolutely not. >> he was living the american dream. >> what do you mean by that? >> he had a really good job, really good pay, $77,000 a year minimum, he had a wife, he had children, he had, he had a warm house, he had a baby. >> what do you think about the role that his wife played in
this? >> it's just unbelievable. >> is there something particularly striking about the fact that a qom was involved? >>in believable. >> and she's the mother of a six-month-old baby. so how she had the heart to leave her baby behind. >> yeah, it doesn't make sense. >> it doesn't make sense at all. >> did he describe her at all? >> i only saw her twice in my life because we have goats that we sell. so he came to pick out a goat for slaughtering. that was the last time i saw him. he had come by to pick out a goat. he had come with his wife, she was all covered with the veil. >> did your mosque radicalize
sayed. >> never. >> there is nothing radical in islam. there is never anything radical, anything about taking others, we on pray our religion and go home. there's nothing radical here. >> does anyone from the mosque shoot at the range for recreation? >> no. >> does anyone own guns? >> no. >> do you worry the effect this shoting will have on their community? >> we man because it has to do
with him being a muslim it, directly involves us, threatens our lives, put our lives at stake, changes our perceptions on life and how we need to carry on from here. >> you had an immediate experience that last night. who showed up at your door? >> so pray our last prayer at 7 p.m. we parade and chatted a few minutes after. a few minutes later, knock, knock. who is at the door? i open the door, gun pointed root at my face with a flashlight. >> what kind of a gun? >> a flashlight. smaller version. it was fbi, lapd. >> the gun was raised when you opened the door?
>> i was shocked. >> scared? >> scared definitely. what did i do to deserve a gun being pointed at me right at my door? >> what kind of questions did they ask you? >> where is he from? what did he do? everything about his background? >> was that the moment you knew it was him? >> yes. >> so you did not know when they showed up? >> i did not know. >> what's the message you want to give to american public? this is your opportunity to give it. >> that we denounce this, we are also fellow american citizens, this is my hometown of san bernardino. i was born here, ephs raised here. i take this as my own -- something that happened not in my back yard but in my front yard. >> stephanie gosk with that
interview. >> morgan radford is with the loma linda hospital. good morning. >> good morning. from the survivors and from their families is emerging this tap industry of stories. one woman julie showed up at work just to receive the employee of the year award. another, denise, was hiding beneath her desk when she was shot in the back. and another man, bathroom break, may have actually saved his life. teak a listen to what he had to say. >> in the rest room, i'm getting ready to return, i hear explosions, the walls pummelling, i look back at the mirror, i see i'm bloodied on my face. as i go to exit, not knowing
what's going on, i could see the bullet holes higher on the wall, i told everybody we're being attacked, get on the floor. we secured the rest room so nobody could enter. i laid on the floor and put my feet against the door and had the gentleman beside me do the same. >> as new details emerge, it becomes clear that the foot continues for those who did survive. jose? >> we are learning much more about the lives tragically lost in this san bernardino shooting. there were between 26 and 60 years of age and 12 of them were county employees. >> we are talking about 14 lives lost, 14 families who are mourning and have the reality that their loved ones wouldn't be around. here are some of their stories. let's start with sierra claiborne. she's 27 years old.
she worked for the health department and was described as a beautiful girl, a sweetheart, always had a smile on her face. her sister was so upset she wasn't able to talk when being interviewed by reporters. she describes herself on her facebook profile as creative individual with a fun outlook on life and she continues with i love hanging out with friends. that was sierra claiborne. there's also robert adams, an environmental health specialist. he was a husband to summer adams. they were high school sweet hearts. she said they loved each other since they were teen-ager. their daughter savannah, 20 months old. savannah planning their first trip to disneyland next week. then there is larry daniel
kauffman, 42. he ran the coffee shop at the inland regional center. there as a photo that his boyfriend gave us, said he loved working at this renaissance fair for the past 16 years. the boy friend was originally told he was shot and in surgery and was hopeful he'd be okay but then heard the devastating news he didn't survive the shooting. those are some of the lives and details of the people who were lost. some families left behind, really such a void for them as they're coping with the reality that their loved ones are no longer. >> frances, thank you very much. we turn to the political fall y out of this tragedy. plus take an eye opening look at
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casualties and terrorism combined. as we go through these individually, we'll start with terrorism, right. this is what the president wanted the media to make a comparison of. even in 2001, 9/11, ten times more americans killed by gun violence. if you take this 12-year period, it's a thousand more americans killed by gun violence than terrorism. war in iraq, american casualties, not even close. we go to aids. this is what we were taught was going to be the really deadly thing and aids has fall i don't know -- fallen as a clip. gun violence continues to rise. the one thing that is similar, auto accidents about equal to begun violence. we should say the leading killer of americans is still heart
disease and cancer, jose. >> thank you very. appreciate that. another country has joined the terror investigation into the san bernardino shooters. we're going to have much more from california coming up. but first president obama remembered the victims during the annual white house tradition. >> three, two, one! >> the first family lit the white house christmas tree but the president made sure to acknowledge the victims and the families affected by the shooting here in san been. >> theirs loss is our loss, too, for we're all one american family. we look out for each other in good times and in bad. and they should know that all of us care about them this holiday season. they're in our thoughts, they're in our prayers and we send them our love.
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sun rising over san bernardino, california this morning. donald trump now has his biggest lead yet in the 2016 race to the white house, a new cnn/orc poll out this morning shows the billionaire businessman has a 20-point lead among republicans and gop-leaning independence. senator ted cruz has catapulted to second place, dr. ben carson is in third dropping eight points. in the single digits, chris christie, jeb bush and carly fiorina. governor bush is down 5 points. let me bring in chuck todd. >> good morning, sir. >> trump, a 20-point lead now? >> this poll was conducted before san bernardino, this is
post-paris. it is his -- you can't help but ask yourself, is it his bravado, the projection of strength when it comes to issues of terrorism, security at home, is that resonating? i think it clearly is with a piece of the electorate. the most fascinating split inside this poll, jose, is on -- along education lines, among republicans without a college degree, donald trump is closer to 50%, he's at 46%, among republicans with a college degree, he's in fourth place behind ted cruz. ted cruz is at 22, ted cruz is there, rubio, et cetera. but that is the biggest sort of bright line split in the party is on education, socioeconomics. so that's worth pointing out. and he does very well among republican-leaning independents who are not always reliable primary voters. all those caveats aside i think
it's safe to say as anxiety and security have risen as a concern among voters, donald trump's place in the standings has only been strengthened. >> chuck, in the past there's always been talk about there's a limit, a ceiling he can't cross through. is that ceiling either going away or just getting taller? >> i don't know. i am one who believes there is somewhat of a ceiling here and i'm a little cautious on the 36% only because in this national poll cnn has a large chunk of, again, republican-leaning independents who are not always reliable primary voters. when had i have seen polling that has really been very narrow in their sample and on who's a voter and who isn't, he still leads but his lead is not as large. so there are a lot of casual voters who may end showing up. i think this is always, you
know, when a lot of pundits say it all depends on turnout, this is what we mean by it. if there is a larger turnout among republican leaning independents, that's going to be huge. >> carson's dropping eight. >> i think cruz is vacuuming up all of the carson. as carson goes down, cruz goes up. ted cruz has been courting evangelicals for quite some time. he was essentially the second choice behind carson. as much as the post-paris and
san bernardino has helped trump, carson had a really bad day. every poll, as carson goes down, cruz goes up. >> who do we have on sunday? >> the chief law enforcement, attorney general loretta lynch in her first live sunday interview. >> chuck todd, thank you so much. you can catch chuck and "meet the press" this sunday morning on nbc. and you can watch kind of the spanish language version of "meet the press" at 12 noon on sunday. >> coming up, we'll get you caught up in the latest in the investigation on whether syed farook may have been radical oozed. the holidays bring many challenges to the feet.
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the suspect appears to have been radicalized. the motive behind the shooting remains unclear. trymaine, good to see you. >> right now as the investigation is wrapping up at their house, which some would describe as a bomb making factory, investigators are looking into the motivation and causation. they are not ready to say this is clearly linked to terror but when you have thousands of round of ammunition and 12 pipe bombs, it seems clear that the mission was bigger than at the center. >> and it seems clear that it want going to be something that spur of the moment. >> that's right. to leave the center, come back with your full armament, your weapons locked and loaded, your mask, they fired thousands -- >> and if it was a one-off time,
you think you would have brought all your ammunition and all the bombs. the majority stayed at their house. >> you would assume so. what was the motivation? was there a bigger plan and something that day just triggered the events. >> we still don't know much about his wife. >> she was living in saudi arabia from pakistan. was she the one that might have kind of lured him into this? they don't know. right now they're scouring their digital life. who did they communicate with? and she may be a critical piece in this whole puzzle. >> and maybe not a lot of information about her because she came here such a short time ago. the other interesting aspect was that about two weeks ago according to stephanie ggosk's
interview, this very religious prn stopped going to mosque. >> this guy was a devout muslim but he was calm, peaceful, the same thing folks at work were saying. to all of a sudden to switch your routine, to stop going to mosque and this bomb making familiartory and all the weapons. >> a lot of questions to be answered. >> tashfeen malik married her husband, farook, in saudi arabia, where he traveled at least twice. he also went to pakistan on those trips and the couple's ties to the middle east are being scrutinized.
despite all of that, federal officials have not defined this event as of yet as an act of terrorism. >> thank you for being with me. >> good to join you. >> let's start with farook. he appears to be radicalized but authorities will not say for sure. >> authorities start to be fairly slow to give a motive. authorities also tend to be extraordinarily slow in declaring something to be terrorism. the shooting of the el al ticket counter on july the 4th of 2002. that shooting, it took almost a year for the fbi to declare that an act of terrorism. so the speed at which this is moving is starting to paint a fairly clear picture in my view.
>> it may take authorities a long time to actually officially declare this to be, you know, related to terrorism but, as you're saying, the amount of ammunition they had, the pipe bombs, the pipe bomb material, how do they get the information on there, the fact that his kind of modus operandi changed two weeks before the shooting. unless you ask for an official definition that this was terrorism related, it was. >> i agree with that. two factors are interesting. one, i think they're a little bit slow because there hasn't been a statement, a manifesto, which provides the motive. terrorism is an act of violence against civilians that perpetrated to advance political or other agenda. it's possible, as self commentators had noted, that he didn't intend to carry out an attack initially against his
place of work. he had gone to the holiday party, he apparently left very angry. it's possible he got into an altercation and decided to carry out a first attack there. it may not be initially what they had planned. >> and so that would have then been the reason in a you didn't see sm kind of a manifesto. in order, this was triggered and it was tregered before what they had in mind that could have occurred hours or days or weeks later but this triggered it. do you believe that this is a nightmare scenario the u.s. has been fearing? >> so one thing, to be clear, that wouldn't be necessarily the reason for the lack of manifesto. there's a second thing. they were very careful to erase their digital trails as much as they could, destroy their cell phones, tampering with their hard drive. part of the reason is to make sure their plot didn't get disrupted ahead of time. having more than one shooter, they went in with body armor.
when you look at paris, one of the concerns we had after that was an urban warfare style attack -- obviously guns can do a lot of damage. this is something we've been talking about in the context of gun violence more generally. when you have more than one shooter, urban warfare style attacks i think is part of the future of terrorism and something that is indeed a concern. >> then you have the issue of those remote control triggers that they had in their automobile and that apparently they had left. it could have been absolutely a whole lot worse. i want to ask you specifically about malik. how unusual is it to have a woman involved in this? >> it's not unusual in the realm of terrorism. there was a school massacre that is quite well known where women
were part of the team. it's not the norm but it's not at all unprecedented. >> thank you very much for being with me this morning. i appreciate your time. >> good joining you. >> i had a chance to talk to california congresswoman loretta sanchez about the horror seen here and what this community, san bernardino, has incurred. >> you couldn't have predicted this in a million years. you generally have one shooter. you don't have a couple or two or three. as much as that's often reported, the fact of the matter is it's usually one. secondly, it's usually someone without that kind of a tie, without a child. it's so out of the ordinary. it's baffling us. and the third thing, a woman. for a woman to do this, we haven't seen that happen really here in the united states. i think when you take those three, you say what has happened here? what has really happened here? it's baffling even to those of
who who work on this on a day-to-day basis. >> congresswoman sanchez will join me live in our next hour here on msnbc. lawmakers rejected gun control amendments that pushed through a bill aimed at taking down obama care and defunding planned parenthood. plus reaction from president obama's top economic adviser on today's brand new job numbers. will it prompt the fed to raise interest rates? our cosmetics line was a hit. the orders were rushing in.
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republican-controlled senate and eventually be signed by president obama. it highlighted what democrats are trying to do in the face of another mass shooting in the united states. there were three specific amendments added to this bill that would repeal the overall health care bill that targeted different measures of gun control. number one, one about mental health, that went down 47 in support, 53 against. one that would say if you're on a terror watch list, specifically that no-fully list that you are not able to buy a gun, something that republican peter king of new york has put forward for over nine years, that went down 45-54 and lastly a bill that was similar to trying to close the gun show loophole, has stronger checks for online sales. that went down 47-50. what you're seeing is that even in spite of another mass shooting in the united states, the gun lobby still very strong on capitol hill. democrats tried to make a show
boat of it last night. >> and the senate pushed through a bill on obama and planned parenthood? >> this is the first time they're moving a repeal vote through in its entirety. this prosed the house and went through the senate under a process called reconciliation. president obama will have to veto this bill. the legislation did strip money away from planned appareparenth. because the president is going to veto it, it doesn't mean much. >> luke russert on washington d.c. beat. thank you very much, luke. good seeing you. >> thank you. >> we're following new developments on the job market. a little over an hour ago, the labor department said the economy added 211,000 jobs last month, a little above
expectations. the unemployment rate held steady at 5%. here's the jobless rate when we break it down by ethnicity. wall street is closely watching this jobs report ahead of this month's fed decision on interest rates. will we finally get a rate hike for the first time in nearly a decade? and let's take a look at the market this morning. all up. the dow jones up about 173 points, the s&p 500 up 19 and the nasdaq also up. let's get reaction now from the white house. we are joined by the chairman of president obama's adviser on the economic council. >> the last three years are the
best we've seen since 2000. the job market just keeps rolling on. >> the latest jobs report shows strong gan strong gangs in construction, health and retail. what does this tell us about the economy overall? >> what we're seeing in the economy is outside of manufacturing and the oil sector, we're adding jobs and we've added jobs at a faster pace this past year than in the year before that. we're also facing head winds from the rest of the world. those are impacting american exports and that does impact manufacturing. >> so what do you think this all means for the fed? i know you always bring up the fact they're independent and you guys don't get in on it. what do you think it may mean for the fed and possible interest rate hike? >> i'll let others have opinions on that. i don't think there's any shortage of them out there. what we're focused on is what we
have to do in the next week, which is pass a budget. we agreed on the budget numbers. that was passed into law on a bipartisan basis. congress now just has to execute on that, do it without know, id and that's what we can do to help make sure we can see strong job growth like this continue into 2016. >> all right. what would a rise in the interest rates mean for the average consumer? how's that? >> you know, the thing that matters to the average consumer is that we have a strong economy with, you know, job growth, wage growth, without excessive inflation. and you know, it's the job of the fed to figure out how to strike the balance and make sure all of that happens. we're doing our part over here. >> i got it. jason, as we always do here, always appreciating that you come on every single time the jobs reports come on. i always appreciate you coming on our show. the unemployment rate among whites is 4.3% when you break it
down, african-americans 9.4%, latinos 6.4%. that disparity is still so large. and i know it's coming down, jason, but look at that disparity. we also talk about that every time we talk. >> yeah, absolutely. look, a year ago, the unemployment rate for african-americans was 11%. it's come down 1.6 percentage point. that's twice the decline we've seen in the overall unemployment rate. so, when the economy strengthens, it really does work for everyone. it just doesn't work enough for everyone, which is why, you know, we need to take, as we've talked about many times before, you know, a lot of additional steps to deal with longstanding structural problems in our economy. >> jason furman, it's always a pleasure to see you. thanks for being on with me this friday. take care. >> okay, good to see you. up next, hear what it was like to arrive at the scene
right here in san bernardino at wednesday's shooting from one of the officers among the first to arrive. we'll be right back. ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ [ birds squawking ] my mom makes airplane engines that can talk. [ birds squawking ] ♪ my mom makes hospitals you can hold in your hand. ♪ my mom can print amazing things right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] my mom makes trains that are friends with trees. [ train whistle blows ] ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪
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one of the first officers to arrive at the horrific scene here in san bernardino is sharing his story for the first time. police lieutenant mike madden recounts the moments that confirmed his worst fears. while on his lunch break, the lieutenant heard the call on the scanner, and then the alarm was signaled. [ sirens ] >> my goal was to assemble an entry team and enter into the building to engage the active shooter. >> 20 victims. i need all -- >> respond, code three. >> we wanted to get in there and we wanted to stop any further innocent people from being injured and possibly killed. as we made our way around to the east side, it was immediately evident that the reports that we were getting were 100% true.
there were victims who were clearly deceased outside the conference room. the situation was surreal. >> several down in the conference room, several down. >> the pure panic on the face of those individuals that were still needing to be safe. we were told that one of the suspects had possibly fled in the black vehicle prior to our arrival, but there were as many potentially as two more shooters inside. and when we entered, there was fresh gun powder and the smell of gun powder in the air. you train for it and you know that your job is dealing in reality, but it seemed a little surreal, but yet, you know, i did the job that i was supposed to do. my job is to go in there. people don't call the police because they're having a great day. they call because there's tragedy going on, and this was tragedy that i've never experienced in my career. >> lieutenant mike madden. incredible story of bravery
during tragedy. hundreds of police officers involved since the first minutes after that 11:00 a.m. call came in from the center behind me. still ahead from san bernardino, california, my colleague, thomas roberts, will join me here. he was at an emotional candlelight vigil last night to remember and honor the victims of wednesday's shooting. we'll talk about how the community is healing. plus, reaction from the muslim-american community now concerned about a wave of backlash. more on that on msnbc. with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? his day of coaching begins with knee pain, when... this is brad.
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and about his wife? we have complete coverage for you this morning on the investigation, what happened, and certainly, the victims. we begin this morning with kerry sanders right outside the house that that couple shared and where they had a 6-month-old daughter. kerry, good morning. >> reporter: well, jose, this is really the contrast. you have a suburban community here with a husband and a wife with a 6-month-old and seemingly no indication of what turns out to be a secret life. now, investigators will tell you that often, in just about every crime, somebody speaks to somebody who knows something. so, now they're starting the real effort to see who has spoken to farook and who had spoken to malik, the husband and wife here, and maybe learned something. they already know from some conversations with members of the congregation at the mosque that farook had been a devout member, going there three times a week, but three weeks ago
mysteriously stopped attending. this is a man who had memorized the koran, somebody who had really shown his religious devotion by not only going to the mosque but even traveling to saudi arabia, making the hajj, meeting his wife online, marrying or meeting her there and then coming back here, making the pilgrimage, showing true devotion. and yet, now the authorities would like to know if there is a connection between that and radical islam. what they found inside the apartment here that you can see behind me now boarded up, 12 bombs that had been made in the garage, a variety of other pieces of equipment, what basically would have allowed for building more bombs. this was more of a bomb-making factory than a home. they found more than 3,500 pieces of ammunition inside. so much here, but none of it related to the world that they lived publicly, at least according to those that the authorities have spoken to and those that the media has spoken
to. so, we're waiting now to find out where this leads, and the fbi have a few directions that they're heading. first of all, taken out of here is they have the computer hard drive, cell phones, other digital data, but some of that was destroyed by the couple as they were coming here and then heading out and being pursued by police. so, it will be difficult, although not impossible, for forensic teams to pull that digital data and look through it, and perhaps see if there was any sort of indication of contacts outside of just this community. one of the things that they will have the opportunity to do with the subpoena is take a look at the ips addresses, the internet addresses, as well as their cell phone data, and that may answer some questions of, if they were radicalized, by who. jose? >> kerry, there are also so many other questions, you know. the fact is, is that they had this bomb-making factory in this apartment complex, you know. it must be extraordinarily dangerous. and then, you know, a lot of
folks have been asking me, twitter and facebook, what happened to the 6-month-old daughter, you know? she was living in this bomb-making factory. what happens to her now? these are so many questions that we still haven't heard answers to. >> reporter: jose, it's really hard for anybody to understand how a mother can leave her 6-month-old child with the paternal grandparents, the grandmother, and just say, well, we're heading off to the doctor, knowing full well that a plan was about to be executed. i also want to show you something here, if you can take a look with me. you talk about how this could take place in a neighborhood like this. we're going to sort of widen the picture out here. see how close each of these apartments are to each other? i don't know, it doesn't even matter if you live in the most urban place in america where people don't know each other as neighbors. you would know something, you would think, was going on here. now, this was taking place,
according to authorities, in the back in the garage, but it seems odd that somebody might not have spotted something. and i've spoken to neighbors here, even folks who lived across the street, who said you know, we didn't really know them, we didn't even notice them. we don't even know their pictures when we're looking at them. that all seems a little strange, although the authorities have said they're not certain that they lived inside this apartment, that they may even both have had their names on rental agreement. they may have simply used this as a come-and-go place for their bomb-making activities. >> kerry sanders, thank you very much. appreciate it. bringing in nbc justice correspondent pete williams. good morning. officials say the gunman appears to be radicalized but won't say for sure. they're also not labelling this as a terrorist attack as of yet. can you explain why these distinctions are going on? >> reporter: pardon me, jose. excuse me. well, they are not going to label it as anything until they know what it was, until they know what the motive was of these two. they can't decide what to call
it. now, under federal law, for the fbi's purposes, terrorism has a pretty strict definition. it means an act dangerous to human life. that certainly was this. intended to either intimidate or coerce the civilian population or influence government policy. as strange as it may seem, merely committing a mass shooting, merely committing a mass shooting because you have some sort of delusional philosophy isn't an act of terrorism under the federal definition. now, as a practical matter, calling it terrorism or domestic terrorism isn't going to change anything in terms of what the fbi's doing. it's already sort of assuming that's what this is. the fbi's now in charge of the investigation. calling it terrorism isn't going to change anything about how they are doing this all hands on deck investigation. it's, i think, important to a lot of people. it helps us think about what it is in terms of preventing something similar. but in a sense, the label comes
after they decide what the motivation was. it doesn't dictate how they get there. >> yeah, and then the whole issue of what exactly radicalization means, and we still have to really determine when that happened and what that really meant, right? >> reporter: yes. -- jihad, but we still don't know what they're finding out about his -- precisely his interactions with them. and the question is, where did they learn to build these bombs? did they get this from the extensive amount of instructions that are out there in jihadist circles about how to do this? did they get it from al qaeda publications? did they get it at a public library? where? i mean, those are all important things to answer in terms of deciding how they got to this place.
>> pete williams, thank you very much. appreciate it. >> reporter: you bet. >> ten people remain hospitalized following wednesday's attack. several of them are being treated at loma linda hospital, just minutes from the social services facility here in the area where, unfortunately, this tragic attack occurred on wednesday. nbc's morgan radford is outside of the hospital. morgan, good morning. >> reporter: good morning, jose. of the 21 people wounded, 10 are still hospitalized, 11 have since been released, but those with the most serious wounds are being treated right here behind me at loma linda medical center. and from the survivors and from their families is really emerging this tapestry of stories about exactly what happened that day. for example, one woman named julie, she was showing up that day, a typical office holiday party, and she was expected to receive the employee of the year award, but she had no idea that day was going to end the way that it did. another woman named denise was
cowering, hiding behind her desk when she was shot once in the back, at which point she said the room fell silent before police came and told everyone to evacuate but said that they still needed to maintain cover. finally, there's one man whose bathroom break may have actually saved his life. take a listen. >> in the restroom, i'm getting ready to return. i hear explosions, the walls pummeling. i look back at the mirror. i see i'm bloodied on my face. i laid on the floor and put my feet against the door, and i had the other gentleman beside me do the same. he wasn't going to be able to get in. i guess if he did, it'd have been over our dead bodies. >> reporter: jose, it's clear that as new details emerge, the fight continues for those who did manage to survive. >> morgan radford, thank you so very much. i'm joined now by my colleague, thomas roberts, who attended the vigil at san manuel stadium in san bernardino last night. thomas, good morning. >> jose, good morning to you. this is the 66ers stadium, the
feeder league for the angels, so it's the minor league team. it holds about 8,000 people at capacity. so, they were saying that roughly there were about 4,000 people that showed up. this is the largest vigil they've had in the community so far, and it happened parallel to the time that governor jerry brown identified who most of the victims, the people that were lost inside the inland regional center. but jose, this was a multifaith, diverse service. and there were people of all shapes and sizes and walks of life who showed up. and it was heavily guarded by police, patrolled by those at gates and throughout the service itself. but folks that came in, they were given snacks and water. they were also each given a single candle to hold throughout, whether it was song or prayer, a message from the mayor about how san bernardino might be down, but it's not out. but this is a community that is determined to support one another, no matter what this investigation reveals. >> everybody just seems a little bit closer together, even just walking down the street, and you know, everybody's just kind of watching out for each other. and i'm hoping that that's the
beginning of healing. >> why was it important, justin, for you to be here tonight? >> just to express, you know, the support and solidarity with the rest of the community. when something like this happens, it's important to all band together and just show that, you know, we may be down right now, but we're close and we're going to hang in and pull through it, you know? >> so, that's just a sampling of the folks that we had an opportunity to speak to last night, and there were so many that had the same message, jose, that they wanted to come together, that they wanted to show their support, their love for each other, but also for the victims' families. and still so many questions remain about the pattern that the investigators are looking at here, patterns of whether or not this couple was somehow involved or trying to insert themselves into something that is a jihadi event, or is this a disgruntled work situation?
and they're confused about what the patterns are revealing as the investigators have yet to give proper clarity. >> and thomas, you and i were in paris together for many, many days. it's tragically striking how similar these events are here in the sense that people getting together to mourn together, to pray together and to hope for a better future together. >> yeah, this is a community that has been touched by tragedy before. and i've talked to people about this. and i mean in a totally different way -- >> yeah, yeah. >> -- because they've suffered from wildfires. people have lost their homes, and some people generationally twice because of wildfires that have come through. and they bonded over that. they've been able to justify it somehow because of mother nature or through investigations that track arson, but somehow, they're still able to justify it. this, they're working through a lot of confliction about how to justify what this means to their community and how they move on but not in a separate way but in
a unified way because they don't want to allow this to redefine them and what it means to live here in san bernardino, a place that is really lovely. they have friday night, 50 cent night at this ballpark, which i heard from a lot of people last night is a very fun night to go there. so, this is typically a place to go to watch the ball games. last night it was completely different, but a lot of love at that stadium. >> thomas, thanks. good to see you. >> good to see you, too. >> appreciate. i want to bring in democratic california congresswoman sanchez. congresswoman, good to see you. >> good morning, jose. >> good morning. at this point, is there anything you've seen to indicate that u.s. intelligence maybe should have or could have flagged these two people as potential risks before the attack? >> well, you know, we're still taking a look at it. you have to remember that one of the biggest issues is that this was an american citizen. and remember, all of our liberties, our freedoms, the reason we are americans dictates that we don't follow people,
that we're not big brother on them. so, at least farook was an american citizen, that would be difficult. but with respect to his wife, there might have been some ways in which to do that. we're still trying to reconstruct -- phone records, internet access, who they were talking to. and believe it or not, we have a good ability to do that, so we'll know more in the coming week. >> and congresswoman, just in the last hour i played a little bit of the interview that you and i had yesterday when you were, you know, saying it just seems so odd, you know, that it was a man and a woman together and that this -- you know, they have a 6-month-old daughter and that they had so many thousands of rounds of ammunition. tell me a little bit about what you think about when you think about what happened here. >> this is such an outlier. i mean, remember that i've been
19 years in the congress, most of it on military and terrorism. we've seen multiple mass shootings, we've seen who are the suspects, who it turns out to be, we've seen that it's rarely a woman involved, that it's rarely multiple shooters. and you know, there's just something in me that says how can a mother leave a 6-month-old at grandma's and go off to kill people. it is definitely, when we look at the typical suspects or what happens, it's completely out of bounds on so many different fronts, including the fact, for example, that this was somebody, you know, in his professional life who actually didn't give any indication, somebody who was actually working for a government agency that tries to help people.
i mean, it's just really -- it's crazy. we just don't understand it at this point. >> yeah. authorities haven't said this was a terrorist act. the president hesitant to call it that. do you agree with that? i mean, it just seems as though as time passes, as we learn more and more about just how much they had in their house -- kerry sanders was reporting at this apartment that they had, maybe it was just a front for a bomb-making factory. it's clear that they weren't just thinking of one incident when they had 5,000-plus rounds of ammunition, when they had, you know, more than a dozen pipe bombs, when they had remote-controlled trigger mechanisms to trigger bombs. it seems as though these people weren't just a one off time, i'm mad at somebody at a holiday party. >> you know, again, it could have been a series of things, it could be all. i mean, you know, do you really have to be mental in order to leave your 6-month-old with your in-law?
you know, there was a confrontation from what we hear of some sort before that. certainly, the massive amount of ammunition and point in a different direction. so, we're not going to know until we have all of the information. and let me make one thing very clear, we will get to the bottom of it. we will get the information together. there's no reason to jump to conclusions at this point. and it's also a legal issue, because the way our laws are set up, there are different laws to try or to go after terrorists and their accomplices or people who helped and abetted them, for example, as opposed to somebody who's not a terrorist but is in the community shooting up somebody at a workplace, for
example. so, one of the reasons i think you're -- when you hear the officials talk, they're not jumping to any conclusion because there's a different series of laws in which we cannot only look at these two who, of course, are now deceased, but anybody who might have helped them. and so, if there's some confusion going on for people as to why we're not saying what we're calling it, one is the legal terminology, and the second is we just don't have all the information yet. >> congresswoman loretta sanchez, always a pleasure to see you. thank you for being with me this morning. >> thank you, jose. coming up on this special hour of "msnbc live" from san bernardino, new details emerging on the suspects' possible ties to overseas terrorists. plus, authorities haven't called it a terror attack. we were just speaking with the congresswoman about that, but presidential hopefuls aren't holding back, expressing some rare consensus on the trail. >> it's becoming clearer that we
are dealing with an act of terrorism. >> radical islamic terrorism. and i'll tell you what, we have a president that refuses to use the term. he refuses to say it. plaque psoriasis... ...isn't it time to let the... ...real you shine... ...through? introducing otezla, apremilast. otezla is not an injection, or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently.
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now to the 2016 political fallout from the deadly shooting attack here in san bernardino. the debate is heating up over whether to call it an act of terrorism. nbc's hallie jackson is here with more on that. hallie, good morning. >> hey there, jose. yeah, when we talk about the san bernardino shooting, you look at how the divisions are being drawn in this presidential race -- democrats talking about gun control, republicans framing this more as an act of terror, but there is a little bit of consensus on the campaign trail. i want you to listen. >> it's becoming clearer that we
are dealing with an act of terrorism. >> reporter: for hillary clinton, a rare consensus with some republican rivals. with more and more information coming out about the san bernardino shooters. for some, the rhetoric rising. >> it seems that every time there's a tragedy, my poll numbers do go up because they want strength. we have weak people, we have ineffective people, we have incompetent people. radical islamic terrorism. and i'll tell you what, we have a president that refuses to use the term. he refuses to say it. there's something going on with him that we don't know about. >> reporter: donald trump far from the only republican making an early link to islam and terror. >> all of us are deeply concerned that this is yet another manifestation of terrori terrorism, radical islamic terrorism here at home. >> we need to come to grips with the idea that we are in the midst of the next world war.
>> reporter: but as gop candidates talk terrorism -- >> i'm convinced it was a terrorist attack. >> reporter: -- democrats demand more gun control. >> we cannot go on with losing 90 people a day to gun violence. >> reporter: republicans pouncing. >> do you think that shooting in california's about gun control, then you don't understand what's going on in the world. >> reporter: graham's comments coming at a forum of jewish republicans attended by all gop candidates. for trump, things turning combative. the front-runner booed for his response to whether jerusalem should be the capital of israel. >> is that a position you support? >> you know what i want to do, i want to wait until i meet with beebe. i'm leaving for israel in a short amount of time. i know what you're saying [ booing ] >> reporter: and ben carson again seemed to struggle on foreign policy here, raising eyebrows with his mispronunciation of extremist group hamas. >> the challenge is the split between fatah and hamas. fatah and hamas operate in a
constant state of conflict. >> reporter: carson eventually corrected himself. but in a new poll out this morning, he is slipping. the person dominating in the cnn national poll, donald trump, up 20 points over his closest competitor, ted cruz. while the poll was taken before the san bernardino shootings it underscores foreign policy and national security to those on the campaign trail. voters bring this up on their own when you're out in the field. >> hallie jackson, thank you very much. new polling this morning shows donald trump has his biggest lead yet in the 2016 race. msnbc's steve kornacki has all the numbers. steve, good to see you. >> good to see you, jose. well, hallie had the headline, but we'll show you the numbers again. donald trump, a 20-point lead now. this is the new cnn national poll. it's getting a lot of attention right now. 36% for trump among republicans in this new poll. his nearest competitor, ted cruz, 16%. you can see that is a big jump for trump since the last time they took this poll.
also a big jump for cruz and a big drop for ben carson. the most significant thing about this trump number, though, i think is a lot of people have been saying look at the polls with donald trump. there's a ceiling with him. that's what we're hearing. maybe it's 22, 25, 26%. a lot of people are saying that was as high as he could get. well, take a look at this. he's now at 36%. this is the highest we have seen him in any independent media poll so far. should also point out jeb bush. again, all the talk at the front of the year what a front-runner he would be. jeb bush is sitting at just 3%. if we look closer inside the numbers, you'll find a very interesting divide on the republican side. look at this. people without college degrees versus people with college degrees. among those without college degrees, trump is absolutely dominating this race. that is about half the republican party that doesn't have college degrees. among the half that does, a much more muddled picture, trump actually running in fourth place right there. but if you ask republicans on the issues, trump dominates. on the economy, on illegal
immigration, who would deal best with the federal budget, trump, trump, trump. look at this, foreign policy it's a little tighter, but isis obviously in the news in the wake of paris, dominating numbers there for donald trump. then there's this. republicans who don't want donald trump to be the nominee often talk about electability. oh, if we nominate trump, it's going to be a disaster for our party, we're going to lose. but look at this. in this poll, 52% of republicans say that donald trump is their best bet to beat hillary clinton and carry the white house in 2016. so, that electability argument is not trickling down to the rest of the republican party right now, jose. >> steve kornacki, thank you very much. we are learning much more about the victims killed here in san bernardino. their stories next. here's dad. mom. the twins. aunt alice... you didn't tell me aunt alice was coming. of course. don't forget grandpa. can the test drive be over now? maybe just head back to the dealership? don't you want to meet my family?
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bernardino county. msnbc's frances rivera has some of their stories. frances. >> jose, they all came together at their holiday office party to celebrate, enjoy each other's company to let some steam off, but we know how it ended. 12 of them were san bernardino county employees. and beyond their names, the photos that are coming in one by one and the ages, we are learning more about these 14 lives. we're learning more about bennetta bet-badal. she is 46 years old. she's a mother to three children, ages 10, 12 and 15. she was an inspector with the health department since 2006. and according to a gofundme page for her, she "loved her job, her community and her country. her greatest love, however, was for her husband, her children and her large extended family. she was born in iran and fled to america when she was 18 years old. her husband says she wanted to "escape islamic extremism and the persecution of christians
that followed the iranian revolution." >> she came in to have a better life, better education and everything else. and unfortunately it was taken away from her. >> there's also another person lost, a father, father of six. he's 37-year-old michael wetzel. he was a supervising environmental health specialist with the county. his kids were all young, school age. he even has one baby. his wife, rene, said in a statement, "he was my best friend and incredible father who was loved by all. i didn't know a better person. he loved his work and his family so very much. without him, this family will never be the same." well, he was very active with his church, where he led an advent prayer with his large family just last sunday. that church has helped raise around $60,000 at last count to help his family. but if you can imagine, for each of the spouses, each family members of these victims, jose, to sit down those children one by one and have to tell them what happened, so heartbreaking to hear. and that's the case for not just
these families, but for all 14 of the families of the victims lost. >> frances rivera, thank you very much. more on exactly where we are in the investigation here in san bernardino and on the young couple believed to be the shooters. about ten miles away in redlands, california, authorities continue to comb through every bit of evidence from inside their home. stephanie gosk is there live with new developments when we come back.
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terror plot, but nbc has learned that pakistani authorities have been in contact with homeland security. now, what might be central to this is syed farook's wife, who is pakistani who was living in saudi arabia. is she the one who may or may not have introduced him to radical elements? they're looking at his contact with people that have had extreme religious views, their recent travel to the mideast, and there are also reports that as early as a day before the attack that syed farook may have been deleting information from his computer. >> yeah, so, if he was doing that and then you and others have reported that some of the social media, their phones, et cetera, were apparently broken before this, it would show that this was not something that happened spur of the moment, if he starts deleting stuff the day before. >> well, certainly. so, you have the deletion of the information off the computer, a bomb-making facility inside the garage, thousands of rounds of ammunition, 12 pipe bombs, the fact that -- >> remote-controlled devices. >> remote control devices, a piece of a car that was used in
the past to detonate bombs. but also that you went back, left the scene and returned with your mask, your full armament and your guns locked and loaded. it appears this is more than a spontaneous act, that there was something bigger here. >> trymaine lee, thank you very much. as investigators learn more about what exactly what behind this young couple's rampage in san bernardino, many of the muslim community are concerned about being the target of a backlash. nbc's stephanie gosk has been looking into that. stephanie, good morning. what can you tell us? >> reporter: hey, good morning, jose. we're outside of the house right now. it's boarded up. the street has been reopened. the fbi were going in and out of here for more than 24 hours, but we still don't know much about this couple. we still don't have a photo of tashfeen malik, who met her husband online. syed farook first came to this san bernardino mosque two years ago, looking to heat up his lunch. he would go on to pray here three or four times a week. >> we never saw him curse at
anyone, disrespect anyone. he was always a very nice guy. >> reporter: the assistant imam had no idea who was behind the shooting until he says three officers showed up at his home. >> i opened the door, a gun pointed right at my face with a flashlight. i mean, what did i do to deserve a gun being pointed at me right at my door? >> reporter: all three of the men are shellshocked by the news. >> he was an american citizen, he had a good paying job, he had a family. he was living the american dream. i mean, he had everything he could have. >> reporter: farook graduated from college and worked as a health inspector. public records show he made more than $70,000 a year, certifying restaurants like the five n fly pizza place. when he was looking for a wife on dating sites, farook was described as calm, cool and thoughtful and that he liked to hang out in his backyard and shoot target practice with friends and was looking for a girl who would have the same outlook and wear a hijab. he found her, tashfeen malik, a pakistani. they got married in saudi arabia two years ago at the grand mosque in mecca.
>> i mean, imagine to say that i got married in the holiest place of islam. >> reporter: farook helped his wife get a visa to the u.s. when farook got pregnant, she registered at target -- a car seat, diapers, bath soap. but behind the seeming normalcy were farook and his wife becoming radicalized. did your mosque radicalize farook? >> never. >> reporter: that will be the question a lot of people will ask. >> there is nothing radical in islam. there is nothing radical at all happen here. >> reporter: even so, hours after the shooting, the mosque became the target for anti-muslim hatred. >> i hope some psychopathic [ bleep ] does the same thing to you that you do to innocent people. >> look at what came out of it, that we're fearing for our lives, we're fearing for the muslim community. >> reporter: the state department tells us that they gave tashfeen malik a k-1 or fiancee visa to come to the
states. there are now calls to re-evaluate that process. like any visa applicant, she would have had to have gone through an extensive counterterrorism screening, jose. >> yeah, interesting stuff. you say that as of right now there's no pictures of her. if she got that visa, she should have had a picture taken. it's interesting that we haven't seen that yet. >> reporter: it definitely is interesting. you know, for her to go through that process does suggest a picture. to get that visa, to come to the u.s., you have to fill out an application, you have to provide references. there would obviously be addresses for where she lived in pakistan. there has to be a folder on her somewhere, a file on her somewhere at the state department, and so far, we haven't seen that, and that's why you're hearing these calls to reveal what exactly the process was when she was given this visa. a lot of questions still remaining about her. >> stephanie gosk, thank you so very much. i want to bring in zahar aziz at
texas a&m school of law, associate professor of law. thank you for being with me. >> thank you. >> what's your reaction and the reaction you're seeing from muslim americans following this rampage here in san bernardino? they were very clear and almost immediately after it very public about it. >> well, it's unfortunate that every time a criminal act is conducted by a muslim, the entire muslim community, which is over 5 million in the united states, or multiple communities, feel that they have to condemn it and they have to issue press releases to let their compatriots know that islam has nothing to do with terrorism or it is not responsible for an individual's criminal act. and i think that shows that we have a very serious problem of anti-muslim bias and stereotyping, which, infects various parts of the criminal justice system, whether it's assuming that african-american males are inherently violent or that latinos are all illegal immigrants. and i think we need to address
that problem head on and treat criminals as individuals and try to understand the individual circumstances of each particular crime. >> no, and i'm glad you bring that up, because that is some very interesting comparisons, but you used the word criminal four times. what happens if this wasn't a criminal act and it was, indeed, a terrorist-related act? there is, i think, the importance of everyone to come forward and say we reject this, regardless of who or what religion or what race participated in it. if this was terrorist related, not a criminal act by criminals, i think it's important that that be underlined. >> well, first, terrorism is a type of criminal act, and a terrorist act is one in which an individual or a group engages in violence in pursuit of a political agenda or a political motivation, usually to undermine government legitimacy, overthrow a regime or effect government policies or actions. at this point, we really don't
know what their motives are. i think we can tell that there may be some premeditation to a violent act, whether it was this particular workplace violent act or whether it was something larger, but mass shootings are usually premeditated. if you see the acts of robert dear against planned parenthood, adam lanza in the newtown, connecticut, school shootings, you have other mass shootings where there is premeditation. we just don't know if this was politically motivated, and no terrorist group has thus far claimed responsibility, which is usually a staple aspect of a terrorist act because terrorists want to take responsibility for these acts. >> yeah. professor sahar aziz, thank you so much for being with me this morning. i appreciate it. >> thank you. and we have breaking news right now on a possible connection between the san bernardino shooters and isis. i'm going to get right to nbc's pete williams. pete, good morning. >> reporter: good morning, jose. one of the questions all along here has been if syed farook
was, in fact, radicalized, what was the radicalizing influence? and one of the possibilities has been changes in his life, and one of the big changes was his marriage to tashfeen malik, who came from pakistan, whom he met in saudi arabia. and as authorities look further and further into their background, they say they've discovered what could be a very important piece of information. they say several law enforcement officials tell us that on the day of the shooting, just before the attacks, she posted a statement of support for the isis leader abu bakr al baghdadi on a facebook page. it's oftentimes a terrorist move to make an expression of support for isis and for isis leaders, so it does seem to follow a pattern that has been used in other isis-inspired attacks. now, the question is, in what category does this fall? was this an isis-directed
attack? there's been no indication of that so far. or was this an isis-inspired attack or someone who's been following isis and decides that they want to heed the call to carry out acts in the u.s.? if it is that, this is the thing that has law enforcement, of course, most alarmed. it's very difficult to know what's in a person's head if they're just reading along and suddenly decide to do something without being directed from outside. home-grown extremism. a question, of course, is given that she has just recently come to the u.s., just last year, did she bring some of this ideology with her, or is it something that she developed while she's here? very important questions. they're just now getting into her background. not much has been known about her. the fbi has, of course, legal people in pakistan, and they're trying to get the pakistani authorities to look more into her background, but this is certainly an important development in the investigation
and certainly pushes it more in the direction of a terror act. >> and pete, i'm just wondering, neither isis nor any organization that we know of has claimed responsibility directly since last wednesday, right? >> reporter: well, that's right, and it may be that they're unaware that she has pledged support. you know, unfortunately, or however you look at it, unfortunately, lots of people around the world on facebook pages pledge support for isis. doesn't mean that isis is aware of them, probably isn't aware of most of them. so, they probably aren't aware that she was carrying this out in the name of isis, if, indeed, that's what she was doing, as it now appears. >> all right, pete williams, thank you very much. we will have more on this breaking news, including how tashfeen malik legally arrived in the united states.
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involved in the massacre here in san bernardino. we are just learning that tashfeen malik posted a statement on facebook pledging support for isis. we have not yet seen her face but know she is the wife of syed rizwan farook and arrived in the united states a couple of years ago under a fiancee visa. joining me now to explain what exactly a fiancee visa is and the steps required to get one, msnbc chief legal correspondent ari melber. ari, good morning. >> good morning, look -- >> so what do we know first about malik? >> the first thing we know that you were, of course, just reporting minutes ago with nbc's pete williams is this news that, according to law enforcement authorities, she had posted a statement of some kind of support on a facebook account, authorities telling nbc news. we're tracking that story. what i've been tracking is how she got into the u.s. legally, which was through this fiance visa. now, we know she was 27 years old, born and raised in pakistan but spent time in saudi arabia.
according to federal officials, she came here legally through the fiance visa. that's a k-1 visa that people can get if they are foreigners and are engaged, as you would expect, if they are the fiance of an american citizen. that is how she entered the country, jose. >> and do we know, ari, there is a process, and stephanie gosk was talking about this. this is not just like you go to the embassy or consulate and they, you know, stamp your passport and you're done. there's a process to obtain this kind of visa. >> that's right. legally, this is one of the more stringent processes for foreigners who want to enter the u.s. essentially, there is a battery of security and personal questions, there are police, basically, police statements that are required to be submitted from the police departments in any country the individual has lived over six months. there's a sealed packet that they then have to receive and take and keep sealed and present to the department of homeland security. basically, it is very stringent and more so than other ways to get into the country.
jose, because there is an interest, we haven't confirmed motive or anything like that -- everybody knows that -- but because there is an interest at the legal level of how it affects patrolling for people entering the u.s., i spoke with security experts about this. several said look, this is not the easiest or main route that a potential terrorist planning something would come into the u.s. if anything, you'd look at the visa waiver program, the 19 countries or so where people don't have to do any of that. they just show up at the airport. about 35 million people came into the u.s. last year on the visa waiver program. on the fiance visas, we're talking more like 34,000, jose. >> yeah, that's interesting. and ari, this is, as the investigation progresses, i'm sure we're going to be seeing more of that aspect. but she was born in pakistan and she spent years in saudi arabia. saudi arabia, it's not easy to get into saudi arabia. a woman getting into saudi arabia is not the easiest thing in the world. so, there's a possibility that her parents were brought to saudi arabia as foreign workers.
there is information there that i presume the american government is already looking for the saudi arabian government to help in on, but there seems to be a very specific legal trail that she followed in order to get to the united states, and that information should be forthcoming. >> we think it will be forthcoming. i mean, what we've been able to learn already suggests that she was on this legal route. that means that the united states, although we haven't seen it yet, they should have some of that paperwork. the big security question, where the law meets the counterterror, jose, is what was known about her potential plans, remember interest in potential acts of violence or potentially the motive that would relate to these attacks, still unknown, according to authorities. who was known earlier at the time? in other words, was there any type of smoking gun missed? we have no indication of that yet. it is entirely possible that she did enter the country legally and at the time sdrdidn't have kind of conduct, behavior or
records that would advise against admitting her. that is to say, whatever happened in her life, these choices that led up to these horrific murders that they're accused of, that they're the suspects in, may have occurred later, and thus, legally, the immigration process wouldn't have been relevant from a security perspective. but this is something i can tell you many officials are bearing down non right now 24/7. >> it would be interesting to see the state department's reaction and what information they have and what they can share with us. ari melber, always a pleasure. thanks for being with me. >> you bet. >> take care. and before we go, just to give you an idea of how specific, precise and intense the investigation is, we are just a couple of yards from where this tragedy occurred last wednesday at about 11:00 in the morning local time. and you see all of those automobiles that are in the parking lot, and there are literally dozens of automobiles in that parking lot. those were the cars that brought folks here to this center last
wednesday before 11:00 in the morning when this holiday party took place, and there are some different cars. you see one car there that has the windows smashed out of it. i don't know what that is all about, but these are the vehicles that were here before 11:00 a.m. and they have not been moved or allowed to be transported away from here. why? because the investigation continues and they are going so specifically not only through every single centimeter, inch and millimeter of that building, but also all of the automobiles. that's how intense, specific and profound this investigation is and will continue to be. that wraps up this hour of "msnbc live" from san bernardino. thank you for the privilege of your time. tamron hall is up next. you owned your car for four years, you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends, three jobs...
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rampage in san bernardino, california. nbc news has learned via law enforcement sources that the wife of syed farook, tashfeen malik, posted a statement on facebook pledging her support for isis. msnbc's cal perry is here with me now as we get more information. but as i understand it, cal, this message was posted on the day of the attack. >> right. so, as we understand it, very shortly before the attack took place, she takes to facebook, she pledges her support for al baghdadi. he is the leader of the islamic state isis, daish, whatever you want to call it. that happened minutes before the attack. one of the things that's unclear, though, is the name that she used. it's not clear that she used her facebook page, but a different name, which makes it difficult to find out who's following her online. all of this fits with the isis m.o. of getting more people inspired by letting them know about an attack just before it happens. >> you're the technology expert here. we know the importance isis has placed on social media, whether it's facebook, twitter or the